BIDS psychophys support and StartTime

Summary

Which “direction” is the StartTime metadata intended to go in BIDS psychophys files, when there is no corresponding neural dataset?

Clarifying diagram

Hopefully this clarifies slightly what I’m asking.

We have a task that gets run both in fMRI with psychophys, and in a plain old out-of-scanner psychophys environment.

When we have fMRI data, it seems clear that the StartTime will be negative to capture the fact that the recording of psychophys started before the scanner.

But when we don’t have MRI, it feels slightly odd that the StartTime will still be negative, and I’m not sure the spec answers this question. Should it be 0 in this case, because the spec says “the first data sample in the corresponding (neural) dataset” and the psychophys data is the dataset in this case?

Positive feels wrong, but I’ve seen datasets that do have positive offsets for this value, and I can put myself in a headspace where I think “the dataset starts recording at 0 but the task starts at 5s in, therefore StartTime should be 5.0”.

Additional question

I’m having a hard time even finding examples of BIDS with psychophys sidecars where StartTime is negative. Including psychophys at all seems rare. All the sample datasets in the BIDS repo appear to just set StartTime to 0. Is it more “standard” to just trim the data to that 0 starting point and say StartTime is 0? Because that’s simple enough…


Appreciate any insight into my confusion on this!

I had made a similar diagram in the pull request on the eytracking extension to BIDS: https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-specification/pull/1128#issuecomment-1668557750

I agree that the definition of start time should not mention “neural” as we can have purely behavioral datasets with physio recording.

I would say that when you only have behavioral data, starttime should probably be 0, because the only ‘non behavioral’ data you have in this case is the physio data, so the start time in this case would be 0 by definition (the physio data stream starts when the physio data stream starts)

Not a lot of BIDS datasets with purely behavioral stuff in them…

Using an old-ish (so at least 1 year out of date) index of BIDS dataset out there (https://cohort-creator.readthedocs.io/ , Usage Notes - cohort creator 0.1.dev128+gff963f5 documentation):

pip install cohort-creator
cohort_creator browse

I found about 50 datasets with physio data or purely behavioral data,

I could find only those datasets that have both beh and physio somewhere in the dataset and only in the 2 last ones you have physio run with the behavioral data.

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