Problems with CSF during fMRI distortion correction portion of fMRIprep -data from phillips scanner

Has anyone come across this before? At our second MRI site, fMRIprep seems to be having issues with the distortion correction (Phillips scanner). It looks like it’s struggling with the high-intensity CSF. Distortion correction is 1 fMRI scan in the opposite phase encoding direction. Normally we have 4, but here is what the output looks like. Wondering if anyone has any advice on this?

This didn’t happen when we ran preprocessing on our own with top-up (details of what we did below)

  1. (motion correction (mcflirt) on the resting AP and the PA distortion scan separately
  2. calculate a mean time series image for each just by averaging across each voxel’s intensities over time
  3. concatenate the two mean time series images together into a single 4D volume (using fslmerge) with the AP mean image as the first and the PA mean image as the second volume 4) motion correct (mcflirt) the concatenated mean images by making volume 0 (the AP image) as the reference volume (-refvol 0) and realigning the PA mean time series to it (typically there is a minimal change here but sometime people move quite a bit between the PA distortion scan the functional run). 5) run top-up to estimate the distortion field, and then I apply the top-up correction to the motion-corrected resting state AP scan.

Could you try running with nipreps/fmriprep:next? A number of fieldmap issues should be improved there, and it would be good to know if yours is covered. You can use --level minimal to run as little as possible. You will still get reports showing the quality of the SDC and an SDC-corrected BOLD reference file.

Ok, will try this and get back. Thanks.

@AustinBipolar 23.2.0a1 is out, which is a pre-release. It is “feature complete”, in that everything we intend to have in 23.2.0 is in it, but we want to give some time for people to run tests and catch bugs before we make it the obvious latest release. We would love to hear from you about how it runs.

I reran with the updated version of fMRIprep and things appear to still be going badly during the distortion correction portion.

I used the fmriprep_next version of the container - here is my command

/opt/conda/envs/fmriprep/bin/fmriprep /scratch/06953/jes6785/test_a116/ /scratch/06953/jes6785/test_a116/derivatives/fmriprep-v23.1.3/ participant --participant-label sub-a116 -w /scratch/06953/jes6785/WORK/ --fs-license-file /scratch/06953/jes6785/license.txt -v --skip_bids_validation --bids-filter-file /scratch/06953/jes6785/fmriprep/ses-01_bf.json --stop-on-first-crash --mem-mb 190000 --nthreads 64 --output-spaces MNI152NLin6Asym:res-2

Here is the desc-preproc_fieldmap

here is the desc-epi_fieldmap

image

Still having issues with the updated version, sorry about my delay getting back, but I just uploaded some further information.

Hmm. Thanks for trying that out. Would it be possible to get a copy of this subject? Just one T1w, BOLD (can be truncated to ~50 volumes without affecting processing) and fieldmap would be good to try to see what’s going on.

just messaged you about it - not sure best way to send. thanks for agreeing to help out. Really appreciate it. I am really stuck here.

I’ve found the specific issue: FIX: Drop header before resampling image to avoid unsafe cast by effigies · Pull Request #415 · nipreps/sdcflows · GitHub

Data type coercions may be a bit of whack-a-mole, so I hope they don’t pop up elsewhere. Running in minimal mode gets sensible looking results. I’ll run in full and check the outputs.

thanks so much for looking at this. I really appreciate it. Please let me know if I can assist at all.

Hi,
I just wanted to post that the update version of fMRIprep appears to have fixed the issues we have had (currently the unstable version of the docker container). Here are the updated images which are now much closer to the top-up version. Thank you.

updated desc-epi_fieldmap

Hi @AustinBipolar , thank you for the update! Which version specifically did you use to get good results?

Thanks!

docker pull nipreps/fmriprep:unstable

effigies very kindly put together a fix for us, but it’s not yet official.

I’m in the process of releasing 23.2.0 today. It will include this fix, as well as a recent one where SyN-SDC was generating exaggerated fieldmaps.

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